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PRESENTER- Thank you, Your Excellency, for seeing us during a very busy time for Türkiye. And at the later meeting, I would like to ask you one general question from your previous life: You were the man in the shadow, you know, nobody knew you. You were called the ghost by some people and you held all the secrets of Türkiye and other countries. How did you make this transformation? Now you are a public figure. Which job do you prefer most and what is it? How does this previous job help you in your current job?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, thank you very much, first of all, for hosting me in your program. This question is a very important question. It's very difficult for me to really decide which job was better or that I would prefer. But at the end of the day, you know, I would think of myself as a servant of the people and the government. So whatever job I am given, I try to do my best. But my long years in intelligence as the chief of the intelligence agency gave me some very crucial insights on how the world works and how the people and organizations behave, and what are the consequences for national security and how we can best address the certain issues, security issues and other issues. I think those insights were very valuable. Now, I am, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, conducting my duty, I think I usually benefit from my past experiences in terms of knowing the facts, employing different analytical techniques and communicating properly with my counterparts. It's very useful.

PRESENTER- Okay. I'm going to start you out at NATO now. And, you know, there is always the Ukraine-Russia war. I want to ask you what are the key sticking points that you're getting now that the US and Russia are mediating the peace, the peace talks for Ukraine, and what role Türkiye is playing and what kind of peace deal do you think is viable now?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, first of all, let me say this. What Mr. Trump and his team is trying to do is something that we really welcome because for the last couple of years as Türkiye, both under NATO roof and other values, we were advocating an immediate ceasefire and end of the war, because the war became so much destructive, the death toll was unbearable. In the middle of 21st century, in the middle of Europe, this amount of death and destruction should not be tolerated. Now, Mr. Trump is finally following an agenda to stop the war. But since it has too many peculiarities and different points, and it is not easy to have an immediate ceasefire, let alone a peace agreement. I think it would require a good mediation and some intentions from both parties to meet in in the midway. So I think nobody will be happy in the end, but the entire global community will be happy to see that the war is not continuing.

PRESENTER- What can Türkiye do in that? What role can Türkiye play?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, first of all, we are helping create a conducive environment for peace because as one of the regional important countries, we always advocate the peace and ceasefire for non-stop. This is, I think, very essential, knowing the diplomatic psychology of the interested actors. So we are coming up with some ideas, communicating with the sides. And we also facilitate certain engagements between the parties for the last couple of years, whether it be a prisoner exchange or grain deal or certain talks, messaging. And now we are even ready to host any kind of meetings that they would like to conduct. And in fact, you know, as late as last month, Russian and American diplomats twice came together in Istanbul to discuss their own bilateral issues and how to advance on opening up again their diplomatic relations, the consulate level. But in addition to what we have done, I think we are now having a very intensive and high-quality discussion with our European partners, Ukrainian partners, American partners to really push the case.

PRESENTER- What security guarantees are being considered for Ukraine if a ceasefire is reached and not being a NATO member, what alternative protections are on the table? And will Türkiye contribute troops as part of a European peacekeeping force for Ukraine if they did this?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, this is one of the subjects that has been discussed within some circles that we also participate in. First of all, we need to make some distinctions between certain phases and formalities. First of all, the ceasefire and monitoring ceasefire is different than the peace agreement and the monitoring the peace agreement, and the security guarantees, in a way, is thought to be a continuation of support to Ukraine. So when we have Ukraine and Russia agreeing on ceasefire and mediation, it should also encompass what kind of monitoring mechanism or peacekeeping mechanism will be involved, should be also agreed by the both parties I think. So now we are a little bit far away from this point. Now we are trying to get the both parties to agree on first ceasefire. Then by using the ceasefire to work on a long-term ceasefire. So, and of course, how to enforce or monitor this ceasefire and peace agreement will be part of the discussions by both parties. In terms of security guarantees, Ukraine feels itself that it has to be supported or given a certain amount of security guarantees so they can enter a long-term permanent peace agreement because Russia is a bigger enemy for them. So in order not to see a reemergence of the war, there should be a deterrence factor. This is their thinking. So in order to have this deterrence factor in place, so there has to be a security guarantee. The European friends, for the last couple of months, they've been organising extensive meetings at leadership level, at ministerial level just to address this issue and to come up with some answers. There are some answers emerging. First of all, I think everybody agrees that without American support in any form like backstop or a direct involvement, the any security guarantee coming from the Europeans would not be enough. So there is a huge effort to get the American side again engage in security support to Ukraine. And there are other works that are being done by our European friends in terms of organizing more military aid in support of Ukraine. In the absence of American leadership now, because Mr. Trump has made it very clear that they don't want to pursue a war agenda, so now, especially some European countries, especially now France and the UK, they are trying to fill the gap left by the US in this regard.

PRESENTER- Okay. And you know, both President Erdoğan and yourself have basically welcomed the initiative. But any peace deal would mean that Russia would not see 20% of Ukraine. Given Türkiye's firm stance on territorial integrity, would such a plan, a peace agreement under this term be viable, be acceptable to you?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, you know, the peculiarities of the current situation is not easy and will never be easy. So when we look at the conditions and the status in the theater, of course it will be extremely difficult to digest any proposal. But when we look at the other option, which is more death and destruction, I think whatever the conditions that we have in the theatre will be a more reasonable in terms of not to go to the other direction.

PRESENTER- Okay. Looking at the history of Russia and including past agreements, and that includes the 2014 annexation of Crimea, do you believe President Putin will honour this peace agreement if it happens?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, I cannot say anything on behalf of other leaders and for future scenarios. But you know, if we reach an agreement and agreed by the both sides, again it has to be agreed by both sides, I think we should expect that it is honoured. And as international community, we're ready, and we should be ready to make our own contribution that is being observed.

PRESENTER- What are the implications of the rapprochement between President Trump and President Putin, and how does this impact Türkiye and Europe in general?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, it's another important question. You know, now as we see, there are two tracks happening. One is how to address the war in Ukraine. So the United States is talking and discussing with Russia on this subject. The other thing is how to normalize relations with the United States and Russia, as we understand. You know, this is also a subject that they are discussing. I think two tracks are heavily intertwined, I think interdependent. So one advance on the Ukrainian war front will certainly help Russia-US relations to be normalized. But it will certainly affect the geopolitical system one way or another. I think it will cause a big geopolitical shift because since the beginning of the Cold War, the orientation of the geopolitical positioning of certain actors, I think, are made according to the division created during the Cold War. Now, if we see that the main actors are not hostile anymore, they are having some kind of cooperation, I think the mentality that we have inherited from the Cold War, which was based on the hostility between the West, mainly the United States and Russia, will create a huge change. And, you know, it will be a huge change.

PRESENTER- Coming to that shift of Mr. Trump's policy on Ukraine, 180-degree shift. Are you concerned that it could weaken Europe basically? How do you see Europe under President Trump's influence now? I mean, from our side, it looks like, you know, people say it's a weaker Europe now.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, maybe it's an opportunity for Europe too, because there has been a huge dependency on the United States since the beginning of the Cold War, you know. And this dependency is so all encompassing and so big that nobody was even thinking that it is there. So it was taken granted. Now Europe is facing a crisis, but that crisis might lead also an opportunity to really become more independent and less dependent on certain areas to the United States. I think because everybody knows that the current EU system is only possible under American security umbrella. So this is now if the US withdraws itself and disengage itself from the European security gradually. And I'm not sure about this, maybe; but if it happens, it might also present an opportunity for the European Union. In the beginning, they might seem to be weaker, but I think in the long run it will be helpful for Europeans. But in terms of geostrategic assessment, I think the EU might be less relevant to the geostrategy, because if there is the American partnership end and the America starts partnering with other geopolitical partners as much as they do with the Europeans, I think the relevance of the EU and European countries are becoming less, and they have to be more competitive then, because their partnership with the United States has given them a huge advantage in international fora, whether it be political, security or trade.

PRESENTER- Yeah, they have to be more reliant. I want to move to other hot topics, which is Syria. And you were involved in Syria from the beginning in your previous role. You oversaw. You went to see President Assad during the beginning of the uprising. President Erdoğan was a very close ally then before the uprising, tried to persuade him to launch dialogue, to have a political solution. And then you often saw the building of the rebels, creation of rebel forces and were in Syria, and Türkiye was essential in that role. I understand you drove recently because the airport was not functioning to Syria to meet President Sharaa, and you saw the devastation and you saw the destruction, basically. And I saw it, too. You know, it was like another Stalingrad. So how do you see, you know, as a leader and how did it feel for you to meet President Sharaa at the palace compared to when you met President Assad? Just tell me how did you feel then, seeing that, this change of leadership, and how do you see the future of Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, Syria belongs to Syrian people, and any administration regime is welcomed by the majority of the Syrians, is welcomed by us. As you know, I mean, the Assad regime was a regime of minority and now there is an historical opportunity in Syria for a majority government. The Sharaa government is representing the majority. But it doesn't mean that they should be mistreating the minority and they should be all inclusive. In fact, I mean, in our view, this is what we've been advising as Türkiye, we are trying to mirror ourselves to Syria in certain areas, especially public administration, saying, advising, look, there is no minority-majority here, all Syrians are equal and regardless of their ethnicity, religious sect, they should be equal before law, before government services. So I think now Mr. Sharaa understands this very fact because when you deliver justice, basic services, infrastructure to your own people, it doesn't recognize religion or ethnicity and they should equally enjoy. This is how you can create a strong community, how you can create a distinct and unique Syrian identity. Otherwise, in the absence of belongingness of the people to the existing system and identity, you cannot create a robust society and consequently you cannot have good economy. You cannot have good security for the region, and you can become, as it used to be, a source of instability for your own region. Now, drawing all the lessons from past and distant past, we need to really give our best advices. So I think the good thing is Mr. Sharaa and his people, they are very much open to what they call it “istişare”.

PRESENTER- Advisor.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Advisors, and the questioning themselves through the mentalities of the friends, they think that they can be trusted and they know the things. So on politics, on security, on Constitution. But given the status and realities of Syria, how things are broken, you know, very badly. They have really a very challenging job.

PRESENTER- Yeah, I was there. I think the euphoria that was taking place after President Assad was toppled has been replaced with a growing fear among the minorities about the future of Syria. Especially, it was different after the massacres, you know. So this is why Türkiye’s role, given that your strong role, and, you know, you supported the rebels, you supported President Sharaa, you played a big role in his transformation. Do you see a serious potential collapse? Do you feel that if Syria fails, Türkiye will fail?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, we don't make this collaboration. I mean, Syria shouldn't fail, but Syria before the regime is a failed regime, you know before us. It certainly created huge problems for us, but we never found ourselves in a failing position because we have our own system and we know how to disengage ourselves from the realities of the other state. But we also know that it is very vital and important for us to see the stability and prosperity in Syria. So that's why this is the best effort that we are doing altogether with the regional governments.

PRESENTER- Do you have any sign that President Sharaa is responding to some US conditions? We reported recently that the Americans have put some conditions, including eradicating the jihadists and not putting them in government positions, and penalizing those who committed the massacres, cooperating on counterterrorism, and inclusivity of treating the minorities in an inclusive, which is what Türkiye is calling for. Do you see that they are responding and following your recent talk with the US Secretary of State, Rubio? Has there been any breakthrough also on the sanction because this is the condition tied to sanctions relief? Is there any hope following your talks with him that the Americans will lift the sanctions, partially, at least on Syria, if these conditions are met?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, my understanding as a result of my interactions with my American counterparts, including Secretary of State, my colleague, Mr. Rubio, I met him three times in the last two or three weeks. So, I think they are reviewing their policy because they are a new administration. They are just reviewing every file, and they are also reviewing the Syrian file as well. They understand that there is a need to make a change in sanctions policy because that was introduced for a different regime and different threat assessment. Now we have a new Syria. I think that the new Syria requires a different approach. So, as friends and allies of the United States and the European Union, I think we've been making our best advices. Because whatever criteria that we are adapting ourselves, we are talking and advising the same thing. Because as the governments of region, we came together after 8 December last year after the big change in Damascus. You know, we ask ourselves what do we want to see and demand from the new administration, basically.

PRESENTER- There are conditions, no? Because especially after the massacres, the Europeans delivered a letter here at the EU for Minister Shaibani, and the Americans have set the conditions. They are linking the lifting of aid or cooperation on aid to them monitoring, being more inclusive, treating the minorities, no persecution, no more massacres, and cracking down on those responsible for the massacres.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, certainly, I think after what happened in Latakia, the inter-ethnicity, inter-sectarian clashes which led to the massacre of a certain number of civilians, unfortunately, was unacceptable. I think the good news is Mr. Sharaa thinks in this way. I mean he made it clear through his statements and actions that he is trying to do his best not to see the repeating of this event again, because it's a very well-known fact that there is a sectarian tension between certain communities inside Syria because of the mistakes of the past regime, because it, unfortunately, did sow the seeds of animosity between different sects and ethnicities in the region. This is what the previous regime led in Syria. But now this is something that the current administration inherited from the previous regime. So, they understand the sensitivity of the subject. So especially Alawites should be given special attention that they are not persecuted, they are not targeted, and they are not discriminated in this regard. So therefore the past resentment is also there in the society. Right after the incident, they have appointed a committee to conduct a full investigation of what happened. I hope their findings will be really a sound and fair one. And I hope that Mr. Sharaa takes the necessary actions.

PRESENTER- But, you see, he's just distancing himself from these radicals. Are there any changes that you have seen, any kind of delivery that has happened since then or not yet?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, certainly, because we know how he was instructing all the security forces when the incidents started. The objective is not to go to kill one side. The objective is to go to suppress the things. Because, you know there is an element of provocation first. That provocation sparks the wider scale of conflict between the civilian sects, the Alawite and Sunnis, unfortunately. And both sides killed people from each other. And so, this is a disaster for a nation. So, it's a state problem now, I think he should be addressing accordingly.

PRESENTER- We have reports that Türkiye is considering establishing military bases in Syria as part of the Joint Defense Agreement with air defense capabilities. And also that Israel, of course, has said publicly that it opposes Türkiye's growing influence in Syria. And they're claiming that you are keeping Syria as a protectorate. And we saw that they are intensifying the airstrikes on Syria. Does Ankara interpret the recent intensification of Israeli strikes as part of an attempt to block an expanded Türkiye military role or foothold in Syria. And given Israel's growing military presence, do you foresee any potential clash between Israel and Türkiye there? You know, there are fears that it could lead to a military confrontation between the two armies.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, first of all, you know, we don't want to see any confrontation with Israel in Syria because Syria belongs to the Syrians. Syria doesn't belong to Türkiye, Syria doesn't belong to Israel. We cannot talk on behalf of the Syrians. The Syrian security should be decided by the Syrians. If they want to partner with certain countries, with certain international companies, they are welcome. If they want to have a certain understanding with the Israelis, you know, it's their business. But what we are trying to do at the moment, is that we try to come up with based on the consent of all the party states to create a platform to fight against ISIS, because now there is a transition period in Syria and we don't want to see ISIS and PKK. They are taking advantage of this transition period. Because in the transition period, we see the absence of the regular forces and some absence of military capabilities. And unfortunately, Israel is taking one by one out all these capabilities that a new state can use against ISIS and other terrorist threats. So basically, what Israel is doing in Syria is not only threatening the security of Syria but also is paving the way for future instability of the region. I don't think that it will be good for Israel's future in the region. So, we try to come up with regional countries, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon and other countries to form a platform with Syria to fight against ISIS, because we are next to Syria and just like Iraq and Syrian administration, Mr. Sharaa also knows that ISIS is looking for an opportunity to surface. So, they need every bit of collaboration and assistance in this regard. So, this type of security cooperation, I think is very much essential.

PRESENTER- It's mainly Türkiye and Syria. It's a joint defense agreement between you and Syria, right?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I mean this is as I said discussed by not Syria and Türkiye. This is Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria; regional.

PRESENTER- And are you enlisting the US as Israel’s ally to try to ask Israel to stop this kind of, it looks like, you know, they're saying that a campaign against Türkiye and they're worried about the growing influence of Türkiye in Syria, and they're calling for the decentralization of Syria. Are you trying to?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, when we discuss with our American friends, and because what I mean, their interest and assessments have been the same. I mean, they don't want to see ISIS emerging again, they don't want to see instability, they don't want to see a threat to the neighboring countries. So, you know, as long as those conditions are provided by the regional countries through their own efforts showing a certain degree of ownership of the problems because you cannot expect the United States to be present everywhere at the same time. And when you look at Mr. Trump's vision, you see that he wants to see the interested countries in their own region to take the responsibility. And this is exactly what we are trying to do: to take our own responsibility. That also could, you know, constitute a threat not only to Türkiye, the region but also to the United States.

PRESENTER- Do you support the Constitution that President Sharaa declared – a provisional one, which gave him sweeping powers as President, Prime Minister, Head of the Army, National Intelligence, and everything else? Wouldn't a model like Türkiye have been more inclusive? Like, you know, an Islamist party, but with, you know, ruled by civilian law?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, Türkiye has a long tradition of a multi-party system, a democratic system since 1950. You know, we adopted Republic in 1923. Then we transformed ourselves into a democracy in 1950, multi-party democracy. Ever since then, we've been having elections. It takes time. I think Syria, which has no experience of a multi-party system and elections, I think it will take some time to transform itself into a multi-party system. But they need to start working on that direction. I think the new provisional Constitution is there to really start the beginning of services and the government in Syria because you need to start from somewhere. You need to first provide the authority, stability and basic services, and then you can start having a better discussion about the inclusiveness of the regime, and how to become better inclusive.

PRESENTER- I want to ask you two more questions, which are very important. And time is short, but you met with US officials to discuss the S-400 and the sanctions. Where do we stand on the lifting of sanctions, US sanctions, currently? Is there any breakthrough now? And do you feel that the Trump administration will ask Congress to end these sanctions?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, the CAATSA sanctions are something that should have never happened between two big NATO allies, namely the United States and Türkiye. I think that was a historical anomaly. I think it should be corrected. This is what we are trying to do with the new administration. There was work started with the previous administration a year ago, but it was not finalized. I think Mr. Trump this time, with his problem-solving techniques and his team, will be able to come up with some sort of solutions.

PRESENTER- So, you have hope that there is a breakthrough on the way?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Definitely.

PRESENTER- Okay. President on Iran. He has issued an ultimatum for Iran to agree to a nuclear deal or face bombing. And the Iranians responded that, you know, the Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, responded that they will respond strongly. Are we heading to a confrontation, do you think, or there is a potential, you know, really hope for a nuclear deal? And if it happens, obviously will Iran agree to a deal under US terms?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, the last thing that we want to see in our region is another war, especially on Iran, because we know very well that the Iranians are in favor of addressing this issue in a peaceful manner, I mean, a peaceful way. And many times when I interact with my Iranian interlocutors, they all say the same thing. So, we need to give a chance to intensive diplomacy. We need to bring together the Americans and the Iranians together to have a direct discussion on the subjects because Iranians are rightly offended. Sometimes they feel that they are threatened. And if you are going to engage in diplomatic discussions, let's engage. But on the other hand, the Americans are trying to make a point. In any way, I mean, we need to bring the two sides together and let them have intensive, frank, and sincere discussions. So, this is the only way forward. This should be the only way forward for our region. So, our region cannot tolerate another war, another big source of instability. So. And we don't know what type of escalation might occur in case of such an attack. So, we don't want to see any attack on Iran taking place. So, we need to see, as it was the case in the past, peaceful negotiations employed by both sides and interested parties. European countries can also play important roles as they did in the past. If it is, if we are asked, we can assist as we tried to do in the past. But whatever we do as an international community, as interested parties to address nuclear file use of force should not be on the table.

PRESENTER- Okay. Last question. I was at the Doha meeting where you met when Assad was toppled or, you know, with Minister Lavrov and the Prime Minister of Qatar. Did you play a role in Bashar's safe exit, or was it a Russian request that you accepted? Many Syrians would have wanted to see him try somewhere.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I think Mr. Assad had this conversation with Russians.

PRESENTER- So, have you all accepted the Russian demand? Basically. Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well. Thank you so much for your time.